Phone rings and rings… Where the hell is she? Finally, she picks up…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Hello…
APP: Hey, Barbara! Got snow?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: More than enough. Polar bears envy me.
APP: Thought so. Any comment on the article "The Apostate" in the New Yorker?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Oh, please, don't get me started on this one…
APP: Come on, say something, any comment is alright with me. I won’t censor you, I promise.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Okay, but don't forget that you got me started!
APP: I’d never dare.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I googled Paul Haggis’ name and his photos are placed between all these sausages and meat bags. That stuff is still more famous than he is.
APP: Come on, that can’t be true. Let me check this… (checking Google images) Holy Moly, you’re right… How funny!
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Lots of haggis around Paul Haggis on Google. Maybe I try the vegetarian version one day.
APP: Of Paul Haggis?!
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, silly, the dish! I hate to admit it but when I was a kid in Germany, I was served some Haggis version. They called it Blutwurst (black pudding) with apple sauce. It was gross! The apple source was alright but the Blutwurst was awful! I remember that I was looking at my plate and thought to myself: this can’t be healthy... Hey, did you call me to exchange recipes or what?
APP: Nope, I asked you already on your thoughts about the New Yorker article.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Lawrence Wright is as blind as most others. It is such a shame that reporters don't compare photos and other footage of L. Ron Hubbard and Mark or Marty Rathbun because if they would, they could see that the originals are being impostored by doppelgangers. Wright's article is joke because he is one of those who do not understand that the main problem of the Scientology orgs is infiltration and alteration. So, whatever negative stuff is going on in and is around of Scientology, it is NOT Scientology as by the founder but by the infiltration who do not honor the founder’s writings.
APP: Barbara, if you could prove that you are L. Ron Hubbard's kidnapped daughter, would you be a Million Dollar Baby?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Most certainly.
APP: What would you do with all that cash?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I would find Ron again and give him all his cash back.
APP: He is dead, remember?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, he is not. He just has a new body.
APP: What is your impression of Paul Haggis?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: My goodness! That article is embarrassing for him too. Breaking into the principal office and changing his school record, writing false check… Isn't that a felony? And he is a bad father too. He was a nobody before Scientology. "Nice" guy who stabs Scientology who helped him to success in the back. I think he is scum. You could not pay me to see his movies.
APP: He says that he left Scientology because the church agrees and he disagrees with Proposition 8 that asserted that California should sanction marriage only between a man and a woman. Did you read that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Who knows what his real motives were to join and later leave Scientology? I don't think either one were honest. Many churches think that homosexuality is immoral. Haggis knew already 35 years ago where Scientology stands on that subject. He is an atheist, and didn't join Scientology for religious or spiritual reasons. He seems to me like a celebrity mole who infiltrated Scientology with his out-ethical agenda. In Scientology, a smart person can figure out the reason for homosexuality. After death of a body, secret service psychiatrists trap beings (thetans) against their will in bodies of the other gender. A person who was in his former lifetimes a man is suddenly stuck in a body of a woman. A person who was in her former lifetimes a woman is suddenly stuck in the body of a man. If they would be not tricked and manipulated into taking that body of the other gender but allowed to pick up a baby body with the gender that they always had and preferred, there would be no homosexuality. People not being in the self-chosen body they had for many lifetimes before are the causes of being gay or lesbian. Anybody gay and lesbian has a legal claim against secret service psychiatrists and mind controllers for deceiving and ticking them. We need laws against these kind of crimes.
APP: Being pro-gay and pro-lesbian is politically correct. Are you aware that your statement is politically incorrect?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I give a damn what's political incorrect or not. After a person dies, she is not free but tricked in the opposite gender. Don't expect me to be quiet about. Do you like your gender?
APP: Yeah sure!
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Do you want to be a woman in your next lifetime but still feel like a man?
APP: Nope. It won't happen to me. Nobody is tricking me into a wrong gender body…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is what those who have now a gender that they didn't choose were once thinking too.
APP: How can one trick a spirit?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Spirit can hear. They play on its emotions, e.g. are telling it that it has to hurry otherwise the body is be picked up by another being and they won’t get any other body. Before they can see the gender developing, they dive into the fetus and melt in it. Frequencies are then used to make it forget its former memory and a boy will be born 9 months later who was formerly a girl, or a girl will be born who was formerly a man, and they either keep their feelings for the same sex to themselves or they become lesbians and homosexuals.
APP: Somebody in Haggis’ family isn’t straight… Don’t you think that this is a reason to resign?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts). If he would have been a real Scientologist, he would have figured out why that family member is attracted to the same gender and never have resigned from Scientology. His resignation was just a justification for hidden other reasons. The New Yorker wrote that he wasn’t emotionally close to this children and that makes this resignation even phonier.
APP: Did you ever meet him?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, and I don't want to meet him. He got his first writing jobs through Scientology and after he got enough success, he dumped and attacked it. How “noble” and “impressive”. On the photo in The New Yorker, he looks like the people who standing in line at soup kitchens. I wonder if he isn't some kind of leftish agent who is trying to force Scientology to give up on its ethical principles.
APP: Was L. Ron Hubbard anti-gay?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He was not anti anybody. He was helping anyone. People have to understand that if they don't ever learn why people have gay and lesbian feelings, the abuse of people being tricked and born in the wrong gender will continue. One day all people will be "gender-switched" against their will. Is that what everyone wants? L. Ron Hubbard was helping anyone with his research. I know that there are people who suffer quite a bit by having a body of the gender they didn't chose. Some have surgery to get in that gender that they would have picked if they would have been not mind controlled to take a body of the other gender. L. Ron Hubbard wanted anyone to know the truth. After they know the truth who they are and why they feel for the same gender, they can make an informed decision for the future.
APP: Are Scientologists making derogative comments about gay people?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If they do, they are no Scientologists because a Scientologist knows that gay and lesbians are thetans too.
APP: Haggis says that he is against violence and abuse within the C of S management. Can he be blamed for that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don't trust him an inch. The impostor of the original Marty Rathbun in Scientology, Mosey's husband in Texas admitted having beaten people, and Haggis has no moral problem befriending him. However, I also don't think that David Miscavige never stepped over the line. The problem is that abusive non-Scientologists and former or current infiltrators are within the rows of the apostates, the Independents, the Freezone but also still within the Church of Scientology, and WHATEVER THEY DO, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR RELIGION SCIENTOLOGY OR FOUNDER RON!
APP: Haggis talks disconnection too. What do you think of it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If people are being told to disconnect from family, it is not Scientology either. But be reminded that any other adult never related to Scientology disconnects too when people or also family members don't leave him alone. I was kidnapped by Cyril Vosper and two other men because I had not disconnected from a dangerous family member, and she knew where to find me. However, the culture of disconnection comes rather from the founder's impostor who I have named Jack Vistaril. L. Ron Hubbard valued family highly. He knew that bad family relations can be repaired, and he would have only approved disconnection within a family if the well-being of a person is otherwise in danger. Nobody disconnected when I was in Scientology. Back then, Scientologists went through great efforts to maintain good relationships with their families.
APP: I heard of that kidnap story. How did you get over it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I just did because I know how to apply Scientology correctly.
APP: Haggis says he is a deeply broken person…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) He calls himself a broken person and does not connect with his children and is emotionally "not there" for them. It says so in the New Yorker of Feb. 2011! Emotionally "not there"? He should have never been allowed to call himself a Scientologist. He sure didn't apply real Scientology as of the real founder L. Ron Hubbard, otherwise, he would have been "emotionally there" for his children. If he is emotionally not there, did he really write his emotional scripts? He can't quit smoking? He had a heart attack! He has no willpower! A real Scientologist can quit any addiction and can move mountains with his willpower. I don't know if Paul Haggis realizes this but that article is no compliment for his character.
APP: Sky Dayton, the EarthLink founder is a Scientologist?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: All I know is that notorious liar, harasser and abuser Garry Scarff from Los Angeles attacked and forged me (a Scientologist) for a long time on Usenet with an e-mail account that he had with EarthLink. I complained to EarthLink many times and despite it is known to the top management of Scientology that Garry Scarff tries also to ruin the religion Scientology, nobody of EarthLink told him to stop violating TOS and stop harassing, abusing and forging a Scientologist or trying to bring Scientology down.
APP: What do you say about Haggis’ childhood?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I’m shocked. He said, he didn't kill anybody but that he tried. Such people in Scientology creep me out. He picked locks and sneaked into the prefect’s office and eliminated his demerit! He forged a check. That's a felony. Jail is the place for these kind of people not the orgs of Scientology! He was drifting and hanging with drug dealers. Can it get any lower?
APP: But he got very successful later, the guy won an Academy Award. Doesn’t this count for something?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He admits that he got his first writing jobs through Scientology connections and then he stabs Scientology in the back. What a "lovely" fellow. His grandfather told him not to waste his life but he keeps on smoking. Haggis thinks he just lives one lifetime. Scientologists believe in past lives. Haggis was no Scientologist because he never run a past live in is many auditing sessions as if he would be afraid of looking what he did. It needs courage and honesty to be a Scientologist. He says himself in this article that he does not believe in reincarnation. In all these years, he remained a non-Scientologist because past lives are essential in Scientology. I also think that Narconon should have a program to help people to get over their smoking habits when they are like Haggis and can't quit on their own. I am sure that under the real Ron, there was such a program but that the smoking impostor removed it.
APP: Can you call it an infiltration when people in the streets are randomly approached by book sellers?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If an infiltrator secret service organizes who walks by and approaches who, yes, that can be organized infiltration. Jim Logan who was married Annie Broeker approached Haggis in the streets. Her former husband Pat Broeker wasted L. Ron Hubbard's money. I heard that the Broeker's dropped each week a million Dollars on the desk of the impostor of L. Ron Hubbard. I asked Jim Logan if he knew anything about it. He chose to keep quiet about it. I am certain that people are actively brought to Scientology by secret services to ruin it. In other words, book sellers approach deliberately bad apples.
APP: Why didn’t Logan reply?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He is just as irrational as many other people. They constantly think that anyone is from OSA, the external affairs unit of the Church of Scientology. I am not but even if I would be, if nothing foul happened and Jim Logan has a good conscience, he could have replied and answered that question.
APP: Haggis took a course and became a Hubbard Qualified Scientologist. Doesn’t that mean he is a Scientologist?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: What a joke. He must have cheated through the course. He just read 30 pages of the DMSMH...
APP: DMSMH?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Dianetics book, also called Book 1. He attested to Clear but didn't read the DMSMH! I am beyond shocked. I don’t think that Haggis is clear because engrams didn’t just happen in this lifetime. If somebody only run engrams in this lifetime and never those from former lifetimes, he impossibly can be Clear.
APP: Please explain engrams.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: An engram is mental image picture, memory or recording or an incident containing pain and unconsciousness of a person and Dianetics auditing eliminated the charge or harmful effect of such an incident. Jim Logan didn't make sure that Haggis understood the book. He just sold it. Good grief! Jim Logan opened some kind of academy to deliver the "technology of Scientology" in the USA. Let's hope he doesn't just sell something but also makes sure that people understand what he sells.
APP: Lawrence Wright, the New Yorker author of "The Apostate" mentioned the famous acting school Beverly Hill Playhouse. He wrote that Scientologist Milton Katselas who died a couple of years ago was the link between that acting school and Scientology but that no such connection exists anymore. Do you know anything about it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am not star struck. I rarely keep up with celebrity news or any acting scene but if you go to the website of that school, Anne Archer's statement is still on the front page. So, whatever Mr. Wright says or writes, I would not bet the farm on it. http://www.bhplayhouse.com/Acting-Classes/
APP: Did you read that he researched and wrote 10 months on that article?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: 10 months research, and he didn’t figure that L. Ron Hubbard and the original Marty Rathbun were/are impostored. What a shame and waste of time.
APP: Haggis says he was Operating Thetan VII. Don’t you believe this?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Are you kidding me? That man never read the DMSMH. He didn't apply ethics, the tonescale or other Scientology technology. He is an Atheist and isn’t aware of past lives and being an spiritual being. He can't stop smoking. That is not an OT. He is worse than a Catholic Cardinal who doesn’t believe in Christ! He never should have been allowed to anything but being a non-Scientologists.
APP: He was sort of a conformist within organized Scientology. Isn’t that possible?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not me. I was always a constructive rebel, inside or outside of Scientology because I am a real Scientologist.
APP: Haggis said he didn't raise his IQ, perception, and he got a heart attack… Doesn’t he deserve your sympathy?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He didn’t raise his IQ because he was too lazy to think for himself. People who just hang out in Scientology and wait for a magic bullet to get supernatural abilities don’t raise their IQs. Scientology is intensive study for thinking people who try in real life to implement these things. How often did I say already that the SEGNPMSS organized infiltration of Scientology altered L. Ron Hubbard’s scriptures to make him look non-scientific. Duh! He smokes and anybody knows that it is bad for any health. But hand in hand with getting rid of engrams and with going OT, L. Ron Hubbard, the real one, advocated a very healthy lifestyle in a protected environment. As the medical/psychiatric infiltration of Scientology removed these components and technologies from Scientology, also Scientologists are aging and getting sick and die. As so much was removed from Scientology, apparently only the very smart people are getting smarter and dummies stay dummies.
APP: What is SEGNPMSS again?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Abbreviation that stands for Still Existing German Nazi Psychiatrists' Mindcontroller Secret Service. In German: INBDNPGB: Immer noch bestehender Deutscher Nazi-Psychiatrie bewusstseinskontrollierende Geheimdienst.
APP: This secret service was formed under Hitler?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, it was formed much earlier but during the Nazi time, they showed their real psychiatric monster faces very clearly. That is why I included the Nazis in that name. I had to name that very secret and very ugly child…
APP: Haggis said that he had chosen to ignore the Lisa McPherson case when he was on the inside. Any comment?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is not what a real Scientologist does. I didn’t ignore the case and wrote often about it. I figured that Lisa McPherson was psychiatric ambushed in her hotel room in Orlando when she was on a business trip and was psychiatric altered, hypnotizes, implanted, e-shocked and programmed to “lose her mind” and scheduled to die in the hands of so-called Scientologists. As Scientology is so infiltrated and altered that it doesn’t produce many real OTs anymore, so-called Scientologists fall for any psychiatric trick in the book. I am sure that the Lisa McPherson case was a psychiatric set up to make the orgs accept psychiatry. And her case wasn’t the only such psychiatric attempt. Haggis doesn’t get anything.
APP: Haggis said at the end of his life in Scientology, he wanted auditing to be over with. Doesn’t that indicate that something is wrong?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Maybe Haggis was afraid that his auditor might find out that he isn’t a Scientologist and that is why he didn’t like to be in session. If the real founder’s technologies wouldn’t be altered by psychiatric controlled agents, nobody would hate auditing. But the problem with Haggis is that he doesn’t figure out WHY he rejected it and WHAT was/is wrong. He is still not asking hard questions.
APP: Scientology raises the IQ?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Non-altered Scientology raises the IQ of any person. Evidently, the apostates prove that psychiatric altered Scientology didn’t raise their IQs. Only already very intelligent individuals become smarter despite of the altered writings because they are able to DUPLICATE THE PERSONALITY OF L. RON HUBBARD AND LEARN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES. They know what is missing and add the missing data to their knowledge. But if somebody isn’t very bright, he thinks that there is no alteration and becomes a psychiatric appreciated cultist. That is why only Haggis’ability to make money and some other abilities were raised but not his IQ to understand Scientology and the universe.
APP: Where you an atheist like Haggis before you joined Scientology?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not at all. I talk to God like a daughter to her father. I wasn’t praying by repeating the same verses all over as if God would be deaf and didn’t hear me the first time. I had and still have a daughter/father relationship to God. Scientology made that personal relationship even a lot deeper.
APP: Haggis was disappointed that he couldn’t fly on level Clear. Is he not entitled to disappointment?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: This man is really something! He hasn’t read the Dianetics book. He doesn’t really know what Clear means. If he would have applied L. Ron Hubbard’s study technology, he would have been able to understand the book and anything else in Scientology. It means getting rid of engrams, e.g. painful experiences of this and former lifetimes, e.g. being afraid of flying, childbirth, water, dogs, or whatever bothers a person. It does not teach you to fly. L. Ron Hubbard said that when a cannibal is cleared, he still is a cannibal. It just takes care of engrams. If Haggis would have run real engrams, it would have been life changing for him. But he didn’t even read the book! It is not an easy read but I was able to read and understand it and so did others.
APP: Did psychiatrists change the DMSMH too?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: They changed just about anything but as it was so broadly available, psychiatrists and their infiltration in Scientology couldn’t completely hide that there is a thing as engrams and once they are no longer there, people are a lot better in shape and happier.
APP: Did the Food and Drug Administration compel the church to declare that the e-meter has no curative powers and is ineffective in diagnosing or treating disease?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Ron, the founder never said that the e-meter has curative powers and would treat diseases. I received 140 pounds records from the US Dept. of Health and Human Services about their e-meter witch hunt. Waste of tax payers’ money! It measures spiritual energy.
APP: Scientologists re-live past lives in auditing sessions under use of the e-meter?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: When they are not like Haggis and not afraid to look back, they often enter past lives. If they make it up to the OT levels and their auditors didn’t notice that they never entered a past life but allow them to graduate, their auditors and C/S are no real Scientologists either.
APP: Did you enter past lives?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I did. My first past life pictures took my breath away. I KNEW it had happened. It is not just memory from a movie or fantasy. Those can be three dimensional pictures with emotions that blow your socks off up. It is quite an adventure.
APP: Are you convinced that other people lived before too?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: 100% without the smallest doubt. People die and are born again. It is a fact. If you ask me, Haggis is a very non-spiritual person and doesn’t feel the present of God or the fact that he is a spiritual being that lived before he had this meat body. He said that he always was a selfish bastard, and he didn’t change. He didn’t change because he didn’t even try to apply Scientology. I pity him. Ethics needs personal effort. Just as he had not enough willpower to quit smoking, he had not enough willpower to apply ethics to his life.
APP: He mentioned Skip Press. Do you know this guy?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know Skip Press only through some of his postings to alt.religion.scientology. He posts there as Skipper and is one very rude person. He attacks and defames. I am as little impresses by Haggis acquaintances as I am by him.
APP: Lawrence Wright referred to an editorial in a 1959 issue of the Scientology magazine Ability that notes that “neither Lord Buddha nor Jesus Christ were O.T.s…” How do you comment?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Whatever! L. Ron Hubbard wasn’t the author or editor of the Ability mag. One of these atheist infiltrators had an urge to smear some crap into a Scientology magazine. Buddha and Jesus most certainly had OT abilities.
APP: Some people say that OT levels are written in Hubbard’s handwriting. Doesn’t that mean that they are authentic?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The OT levels were the first that the psychiatric infiltration altered in Scientology because they don’t want OTs. OTs are smart and able to figure them out. They prefer non-OTs. There are many forgeries.
APP: Is it true that most of the upper level of Scientology involve exorcising spirits?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: As I said, Scientology is altered. I am convinced that secret services, e.g. the CIA has anything in their files that Ron, the real founder ever said and wrote because he was under “protective surveillance”. As far as spirits are concerned, they do exist and they can invade a body. Have a look at them: See my blog: http://barbaraschwarz.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/i-attracted-approx-35-orbs-thetans-without-bodies-a-few-nights-ago/
But you don’t have to be afraid of them. Without a human body, you look just like them.
APP: Did you read Russell Miller’s and Bent Corydon’s books?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I read these book years ago, and they are a waste of time because these “Einsteins” didn’t figure out that Scientology was altered and L. Ron Hubbard impostored and forged. Or they know it and cover it up.
APP: Is Dan Sherman a Scientologist?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think so. I believe that DM or Mike Rinder hired him to write L. Ron Hubbard’s biography and also that of DM. No official biography on Ron is yet officially published because it is not that easy to mix the life of two very different individuals (the founder and his impostor) in one story.
APP: People have two different opinions of L. Ron Hubbard: the most important person who ever lived and the world’s greatest con man…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) They all basically know but nobody but I have the guts to say so: Ron, the founder was indeed the most important man who ever lived and his impostor was a con man. I read Lawrence Wright’s article in the New Yorker, and he makes the same stupid mistakes that other made: they don’t figure out that L. Ron Hubbard was impostored. Don’t ask me about the war history, the education, and the wives of Mr. Nebraska. It is not the founder’s life story.
APP: Hubbard’s name is often mentioned with of Jack Parsons who was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis… Who knew him, the founder or the imposter?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am 100% certain that Ron, the real founder never had anything to do with Parson, and he never was interested in any other person but his own wife. That Parson’s stuff refers to the impostor’s life.
APP: Are you serious with your statement that the impostor was a CIA agent?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: You bet. I think that Mr. Nebraska was a SEGNPMSS/CIA double agent and it is likely that the CIA had him infiltrate Parson’s black magic group for whatever purpose. I have memories that identify the real Ron, the founder as son of Dwight Eisenhower and that the CIA gave him the name Lafayette Ronald Hubbard to “protect him from Nazi attacks” but I am sure that they didn’t tell him that the fellow born by that name looked exactly like him and was still alive.
APP: Can you prove it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: One can’t prove anything to a planet that is run by the SEGNPMSS that controls just about any person on Earth through over six Billions of ear implants.
APP: Wright says that Dianetics and Scientology is dismissed by scientists. Do you know scientists who approve of it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think that any real scientist dismissed anything that the real founder Ron wrote and discovered. CIA allowed SEGNPMSS/CIA double agent to change Ron’s writing and that resulted in that Dianetics and Scientology are no longer that scientific and potent as before, or even look ridiculous now. Just as the doctor (psychiatrists) ordered because they feel threatened by a sane world that can be created with original Scientology.
APP: What do you think about the Sea Org?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I love Ron’s original Sea Org. Dedicated, decent good, intelligent people not wasting time do collect personal riches but working together to change the world to the better but since the Sea Org is infiltrated by non-Scientologists and agents of all kinds, it is not that place that is was under the real L. Ron Hubbard. Ron never would approve of what the Apollo impostor, DM, and others turned the Sea Org into, an infiltrated place with many people who are no Scientologists, where women abort, children don’t matter and people are roughening each other up.
APP: Do you know Janis Grady?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think so. Just briefly ran into her on Usenet. She sailed on the Apollo and that was the impostor’s vessel.
APP: Mary Sue, the Controller of the Guardian Office and law breaker was the impostor’s wife?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes. I am very sure of this.
APP: Sea Org staff earn only 200 Dollars per month?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is not that bad of a deal if Scientologists could live in environments in which they can preserve their youth and health but as these don’t exist anymore and ideal orgs are not being built how the real Ron would want Scientologists to live and as also other technology was altered, they age too and also get sick and die.
APP: 200 bucks is not a great income.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If you have your apartment in a beautiful village in which you can preserve your youth and health, free medical or dental assistance if you need it, free room and board, free utilities, free clothes and shoes, free laundry services, free child care, free hair cuts, free transportation, free auditing and training, free education for you and your children, etc. it is not a bad deal. I learned many people have nothing left of their pay checks at the end of the month after they paid their basics. Having all cared for and 200 Dollars on top of it isn’t that bad a deal when working in a religious order, provided that all those above rights are granted to good people.
APP: Would you re-join the Sea Org?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If it would be exactly like the founder had laid it down, yes, in a heartbeat. Under him, the individual was respected highly. Originally, Scientology was the anti-cult.
APP: Sea Org members are not allowed children?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is David Miscavige’s squirrel version of the Sea Org and non-Scientologists, the infiltrators apparently do abort. L. Ron Hubbard (the founder) made clear that having children is a dynamics and in other writings he stressed how important children are for the future. He would be outraged if he would know about abortions.
APP: Do you believe that the claims of the abortions are true?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, because when I was on staff I heard it from one of my juniors who wanted to join the SO. She had no reason to lie to me. She told it to me in confidence from woman to woman. The non-Scientologist RTC recruiter told her indirectly to abort if she wanted to join the RTC. I told her not to and join rather another org in which kids were allowed and as far as I know she didn’t abort. When I heard that, I was already on the SEGNPMSS list to be kicked out Scientology, and I was no longer in the position to raise hell on the inside. It is such a violation of everything L. Ron Hubbard stood for. Ron explained detailed in the DMSMH what abortion does to a person and what kind of people do abort. No compliment for all those who abort or tell others to abort.
APP: When was that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Spring of 1984.
APP: Hubbard in Creston was the founder or the impostor?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: … the impostor.
APP: What happened to the founder if he isn’t the one who died on January 26, 1986?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure the CIA can answer that.
APP: Did you read the script “Influencing the planet” that Haggis mentioned?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. Even the headline sucks and isn’t something the founder would write. Was probably written by a psychiatrist and the impostor. The real Ron wrote his own scripts. The real Ron knew that there was only one way to change the world to the better and that was through science and truth, and that is what he did.
APP: What is all that talk of Fair Game?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: An old “policy” that was never by the real founder but by infiltrators and the impostor.
APP: Wollersheim, Christofferson-Titchbourne, and some other sued Scientology and were awarded millions of dollars... What do you think about that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is the old song. Non-Scientologists infiltrate Scientology, other infiltrators in the orgs deny their rights, and Scientology has to pay despite it has nothing to do with the founder or Scientology. If – with the help of God – these people are one day convicted of working on illegal psychiatric secret service programs to infiltrate and destroy Scientology, they might have to pay all back, and maybe sent to prison.
APP: I don’t understand why the Church of Scientology tries to keep OT III data under wraps. Most religions make claims that are hard if not impossible to prove.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure that the real Ron kept no secrets. He wanted people to know as fast and much as possible. There are two Scientologys. That of the real founder Ron, and the altered version of the impostor. By having infiltrators protecting the altered OT III version, the SEGNPMSS wants to make the world believe that those are the real OT levels.
APP: David Miscavige announced that L. Ron Hubbard moved to the next level and discarded his body. What level is that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The level is called “psychiatric lies about Ron”. We Scientologists believe that the person comes back in a new body. What DM said made sure that nobody searched for L. Ron Hubbard on this planet, where he still is. It is a lie that L. Ron Hubbard has no new body on Earth. All worked after plan, except that they made that plan without me.
APP: In former publications, Paul Haggis expressed his excitement about Scientology and how it improved his life. He also recommended the Purification Rundown. Did you do that Rundown?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I did and I had great wins too, I noticed particularly an improved speed of my ability to read, study, and understand. It took away lots of “mind fog” and I felt also physically fit. The problem with Paul Haggis is that he is a person without spiritual awareness. That is typically for atheists. If he would, he would have had a lot more wins, despite Scientology is altered, a smart person that duplicates the character of the founder can read between the lines and can still reach the stars. Haggis liked the motto: makes the able more able but he figured nothing of what I figured.
APP: Haggis took drugs when he was young. Did you take drugs?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No.
APP: You were in Scientology for many years. Is Haggis right that Scientologists have no sense of humor?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Ron, the founder had a great sense of humor and people say that about me too. There is something about infiltrators that I noticed: real Scientologists do have a great sense of humor but cultic infiltrators have none. Birgitta Harrington who kicked me out of FOLO EU left and attacked Scientology right after she denied my right to be in it. I remember that another girl and I had fun (something very different than joking for the purpose of degrading) on the decks while working hard. We were not lazy. But we made each other laugh to make the work more enjoyable. Birgitta was such a cultic robot. She came in and forbid us to laugh. It is not the real Ron’s Scientology. It is the psychiatric version of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard said so often to see life as a game not as dead serious penalty but infiltrators want to take the game and fun away and make life hard and unfriendly. As not otherwise expected, Birgitta became an attacker of Scientology. Infiltrators as like her make the orgs to unfriendly and non-scientology places.
APP: Let’s talk again about Haggis… He says he directed a Dianetics ad but it never aired.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He admitted that never read the Dianetics book. He made an ad about something that he never understood! We can all can be glad that we never saw this ad on TV. I think that without getting his first writer jobs through Scientology connections, he might have never made it in the writer business. But he doesn’t admit this, doesn’t he?
APP: Haggis told that he was not made to atone to ethics as other people in Scientology because he was famous. What is out ethics?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: When you do something against your own or anybody’s else’s survival. Haggis was long enough in Scientology to know that he has to correct his out ethics on his own. By being out ethics, he is harming himself and that will never change, if he is in Scientology or not. This is how a thetan, a human being is designed. It basically knows what is wrong and what is right. By doing wrong and shameful things, a being becomes vulnerable, smaller, shameful, degraded, and stupid. To somebody being in Scientology for a longer time, an ethics officer shouldn’t have to tell that he is out ethics. He should know that before he commits the out ethics act. I am shocked that Paul Haggis children rather wanted to go to boarding school than staying with their father. That article is an embarrassment for him... He may think that it would harm Scientology but this article isn’t good PR for him either. But interesting is that Haggis children apparently competed High School at a Delphi school while Amy Scobee blames Scientology for having not completed High School, and despite she could make her High School diploma now, she rather talks bad about Scientology than going back to school. If that High School diploma is so important for her, why doesn’t she get it? In that New Yorker article she indicated that the FBI didn’t want her to talk about any investigation against Church of Scientology but she retaliated against the FBI because they didn’t do what she wanted the FBI to do and blows the whistle on their pending secret investigation? Wonder if that violates laws what she did.
APP: Hey, this is supposed to be an interview. I am asking the question. Haggis told Deborah Rennard in the 90s that he had a “crisis of faith” and doesn’t believe that he is a spiritual being. Did you ever have a crisis of faith?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. Scientology is about knowledge. I am shocked about just anything that I read about Haggis. How can a person be so unaware of himself than this man is? He doesn’t believe that he is a spiritual being! 35 years in Scientology and never got in touch with his spiritual side. It is unbelievable. How can a meat body have feelings or be aware of something?
APP: He feels he’s invincible. Is that bad in your opinion?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Nobody’s body is invincible. And he is just a body because he does not believe that he is a spiritual being. He says on page 2 that he was a bad kid that he didn’t kill anybody but that he tried. He really gives me the creeps.
APP: Do you know that he paid a lot of money into Scientology?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: So he says but as they helped him to become a successful writer, he made a lot more money through Scientology. Steven Spielberg noticed that Scientologists are the nicest people, and Paul Haggis who was never a Scientologists (didn’t even read Book 1 and does not believe in being a spiritual being) has the guts to represent himself as Scientologist to Steven Spielberg and answered: “WE keep the evil once all in a closet.” I think that joke is just funny when it is told by a person who is not evil himself.
APP: Haggis wanted Scientology to take a public stand against Prop. 8. Do you think that was wrong?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Who is Paul Haggis to make such a demand? He was trying to blackmail Scientology, either you do that or else… And he wasn’t ever a Scientologist. He said himself that he should have been never in Scientology. So, why the heck is he trying to force his demands onto a religion to which he does not belong?
APP: Wasn’t Deborah Rennard the secretary of JR?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, she played Sly on Dallas but she did not kill JR. (Laughs) Lawrence Wright threw just about any celebrity name in that article to give it more weight and indicates his own obsession with celebs.
APP: Her parents were not allowed to see their grandchildren, and they sued the church?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: So Lawrence Wright says, but he mentioned no case number. If Scientology would be applied as by the founder and the church not infiltrated by non-Scientologists, such situations would not occur. The real founder regarded family highly.
APP: Do you understand that many people don’t like that disconnection practice?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Sure. A family that loves each other is sticking together until the end of time, it doesn’t matter what anybody else says. What I am saying is that family members who love each other are working things out together, even if it means that some of them have to make compromises.
APP: Haggis was visited by 10 Scientologists among Tommy Davis, Mark Isham, Terry Jastrow, Anne Archer, Sky Dayton who are celebrities and they were not able be to change his mind about his resignation. What is your conclusion of this?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: There was no reason for Paul Haggis to resign because he never was a Scientologist. He didn’t read the first book that Scientologists study, he never believed that he was a spiritual being, he doesn’t believe in past lives, etc. This is like a Christian who doesn’t believe in Christ. Haggis can shovel his resignation. Only a person can resign who was a Scientologist, and a real Scientologist will not resign because he or she knows that real Scientology does work and contains very valuable truth.
APP: There are more allegations in the New Yorker about physical abuses. Do you believe that the current leader David Miscavige of the Church of Scientology is abusive?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I didn’t believe that there were abuses until Tommy Davis admitted to the SP Times that there were many beatings but he insisted that the man who is now married to Mosey in Texas did the beatings. He is now DM’s major opponent. My point is: even if DM never did beat anyone, he kept the abuser(s) and non-Scientologists on staff (no real Scientologist is an abuser because that is contrary to the religion) for many years and that makes him not innocent, capable or a Scientologist.
APP: Police isn’t called because a church policy forbids it?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know for sure that L. Ron Hubbard never wanted a violent person or offender on orgs lines. He would have called the authorities and so should David Miscavige and others. Scientology Ethics Officers are there to guide Scientologists to ethical behavior. But unethical behavior that are law violations must be reported to the authorities. I know that the real Ron want the authorities to lead away those who commit crimes. The orgs are no place for such people and no such people should be protected by orgs.
APP: What is KSW?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Keeping Scientology Working. Ron noticed that people altered it, so he wrote a policy and asked Scientologists to keep the religion and technology pure and original and keep Scientology working. But if alteration of Scientology drops into Scientology from the highest level through an impostor, Scientology is altered despite KSW.
APP: Can you explain what Tom Cruise is talking on that YouTube Video?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He is not nuts but talking to Scientologists who understand what he is saying. He basically says that he is proud to be a Scientologist and feels that it is privilege. He wants to help people and says that he knows that Scientology technology helps people beyond just putting their bodies together after an accident. He means spiritual help. He says that Keeping Scientology Working is most important to keep the technology pure to help other people. He had big spiritual wins in Scientology and that he wants other people having them too. He wants Scientologists to be more active in helping people through Scientology. He wants Scientology to be disseminated and tells Scientologists to reach out and make the planet more ethical and not being held back by own out-ethical behavior. He says that he doesn’t hesitate to stop out ethical-behavior committed by others because he is applying ethics strictly to himself. He respects people who do that with others and he is willing to help.
APP: Why didn’t he say so in a way anyone can understand?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Scientologists understand what he is talking about. It was an internal video just for Scientologists not for other people. I have no doubt that Tom Cruise considers himself to be an Honorary Sea Org member and there is nothing wrong with it. He asks Scientologists to give it all they got to build a better world. He says that Scientology works in all areas of the world better than anything else and that’s why he considers Scientology the authority in many fields. He doesn’t suggest anything illegal. He says just feeling good as Scientologist is not good enough and that Scientologists should be more engaged. He says that he met many leaders in all walks of life and that they are very happy getting help and that they depend on people who are able to help and that Scientologists can help them. He says that if Scientologists don’t know how to do it, they should study more to apply Scientology correctly because people are turning to Scientologists for help. He says by studying, Scientologists wouldn’t be overwhelmed by whatever is being thrown at them. He cracks up mentioning that he was asked by some non-Scientologist if he ever met a SP. (A SP is a person that suppresses others. SPs are people like for example Hitler or any other person who keeps people down.) What he is saying about SPs is that hopefully one day, there is peace and the last SP surrenders and leaves people alone, and people surround that SP and say: Wow, you are of these guys who suppressed others, I read about your kind in history books. He says that Scientologists should not run from these people but that there is technology to handle such suppressive persons. He says that SPs don’t come to him because don’t have the guts to confront him. (I think he is talking of big time SPs. Not all SPs are having same influence. Some run countries and others e-shock people, and yet others are just bums in the street with as good as no power whatsoever.)
APP: Are we talking the same video? The one that made Anonymous so angry?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, that one. He says that he would like to go on vacations and take life easy but he doesn’t do it because he rather works to distribute Scientology because he knows that Scientology can help so many people. He says when he looks at the condition of the world, he can’t just sit there and do nothing. He has to do something to change things to the better. He can’t live with himself if he doesn’t do that. He is trying to encourage Scientologists to be less passive in distributing Scientology technology. He says that he carries his responsibilities in this regards but he still feels he has to do more. He says that he can see it in the look of the eyes of some Scientologists who are as active as he is and some are spectators who think that it is easy for him to distribute Scientology because he is Tom Cruise. He said, he cut that attitude from his life. He tells people that they either are Scientologists or not. He feels that there is no time to distribute Scientology slowly because the planet needs help fast. He says that Scientologists have the responsibility to educate and create the reality that Scientology can indeed make things better for people by changing old ways of the planet that didn’t really work. He asks Scientologists to have compassion, love and consistency to change the world, and he says despite it is a rocky road often, he has a blast doing so and it is fun because nothing is better than improving conditions. He asks himself everyday if he did everything he could to better the world. He is feeling for the people who are not having the Scientology technology that he and other Scientologists are having because they depend on Scientologists to bring it to them. He needs more help by Scientologists to get Scientology distributed and don’t want them to just stand around but he is asking them to be more hands-on in helping others to understand and applying the technology that he discovered as so valuable. He says he is very direct in the ways he does all things and he doesn’t dance around things. As a sum, he a nice person who had great spiritual wins in Scientology and wants to help other people to better lives.
APP: Wow. Thanks for translating that. But you didn’t like the Stauffenberg movie?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Right. Tom Cruise’s first intuition that something is foul with that story was correct.
APP: Did Hubbard ever say that a lot of money can be made with religion?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Sounds like something L. Ron Hubbard’s impostor would say. The real Ron knew that we need a better world and that all the money in the world won’t help you much when the planet sucks.
APP: Do you think that Jason Beghe was a Scientologist?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. I think just like Haggis, he joined for other but religious reasons. He is close with Mosey’s husband who is an impostor. I find Jason Beghe instable in his opinions. He once highly recommended Scientology and later attacked it. A Scientologist might be in disagreement with His Cobness or others, but he never will defame the religion or L. Ron Hubbard as Beghe has done.
APP: Who is His Cobness?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: David Miscavige, Chairman of the Board.
APP: Beghe calls his auditing a rip off.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: If not real auditing as by L. Ron Hubbard, the real founder, auditing might not help that much, and in view of that, yes, that would be a rip off. But Beghe never called it a rip off in all these years before, only when he heard of the Anonymous Mob, he felt inspired to attack what he recommended before. My point is, those people who are many years in Scientology (which also includes Tory Christman) and then attack it, look like complete idiots. I knew within a few days if I am going in the right direction or not.
APP: Do you believe that Mark Rathbun’s blog received 55,000 hits when he published the Haggis resignation?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: For me, there is just one Mark or Marty Rathbun, and he is the original Inspector General for Ethics. The Blog-Marty is his impostor. Yes, it is possible to get these many hits and by not telling that he is not the original Marty, he is basically lying to all these people that he is the original Marty. I am sure there are laws against this kind of deception.
APP: Do you work for OSA?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. DM is their highest boss, and he knows that I think that he should not lead Scientology and that he received the lead over Scientology by Jack Vistaril and not by the founder. Accordingly, there are reservations on both sides. On top of it, they know that Mosey’s husband is an impostor and they don’t tell me where the original Marty is. In other words, there is no Scientological relationship between me and OSA.
APP: Do you believe that there is a FBI investigation of the C of S?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That investigation sure can’t involve L. Ron Hubbard because just about any FBI field office wrote to me that he was never of investigatory interest or electronic surveillance. But it is possible that the FBI opened the case, although I find it odd that the C of S doesn’t know of that and never got any FBI visit. If what they have doesn’t justify a visit at the INT Base, what do they have?
APP: INT Base?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Highest management base, David Miscavige’s Org.
APP: Claire Headley said she was pressured in having two abortions. Do you believe this?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is possible, and abortions are violating the founder’s findings. Ron explained in the DMSMH, also called Book 1 what horrible effects abortion has on thetans. He says, the woman who aborts is on tonelevel 1.1., which is covert hostility. There you can see the difference between Claire and me. I would have not aborted under any circumstances. Claire rather aborted than leaving the Sea Org for a Class IV org.
APP: Do you think that David Miscavige leaves a luxurious lifestyle?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Seems so but he probably thinks that the Pope does that too, so it’s okay with him.
APP: Did he received a Vyrus 985 C3 4V, a motorcycle with a retail price of seventy thousand dollars by Scientologists?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I believe Tommy Davis acknowledged this. The founder, L. Ron Hubbard didn’t get any expensive gifts. I remember some in the Munich org discussing buying him Bavarian Lederhosen, of which I know he wouldn’t have worn them. Well, I think the real Ron never received any gift not even that gift that I sent him for his birthday from the Munich org. It was a small side table, perfect for an office. The top showed the chart of the old world. It was beautiful. Ron was worth all the gold and silver of the world but that table didn't cost more than 100 German Marks.
APP: The New Yorker indicated that the church spoils Tom Cruise with expensive parties, and gifts, and that Sea Org members fixed his airport hangar in Burbank. Is that something you would approve of?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think that Tom Cruise can’t afford these things and he might not even want them. To me it looks as those are the ideas of DM, and he shouldn’t throw MEST at Tom Cruise. Original Scientology and a healthy, sane, and true place where he can study and be himself without traitors turning one day on him, that is probably what he likes just as any other Scientologist likes and those are the best gifts.
APP: Did you get that Paul Haggis hasn't changed his opinion on psychotropic drugs being overprescribed for children?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Overprescribed? That means that he approves of them in some poor children. Makes me understand why his kids rather wanted to go to a boarding school than staying with him. If that was his opinion while in the orgs, I am shocked again. This proves again that he never was a Scientologist because a real Scientologist thinks that NO CHILD should be put on psychotropic drugs and that they are also harmful for adults.
APP: The New Yorker mentions Gerry Armstrong. Is that the guy who said “We don’t have to prove a goddam thing. We don’t have to prove shit. We just have to allege it.”?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: That's him. He's one of those who conceal that Jack "Apollo" Vistaril was the founder's impostor, and he blames Ron on what the founder did. I always thought that Armstrong just attempted to forge L. Ron Hubbard but I learned now in the New Yorker that he didn't just attempt it but that he really forged.
APP: You are talking "affirmations"?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: They were never the founder's. I learned that Armstrong destroyed these papers deliberately but repeats the lie that those were the founder's. What is more suspicious than Armstrong destroying his "evidence" to protect a forgery? Mosey's husband posted not long ago that he puts his hat off before Armstrong. The original Marty Rathbun in Scientology never would.
APP: What was in those church files that Armstrong took with him?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I assume other forgeries or stuff about the impostor's life. By not clarifying that the founder was impostored by a doppelganger and by asking the impostor's records back through the courts, the Church of Scientology made these papers valuable. People thought that when the church wants them back, they must be authentic. It is stupid. They should have told Armstrong to clean his windows with those because those are not the records of the founder.
APP: The church paid him USD 800,000 to keep his mouth shut?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: He also violated that agreement and by paying him this money, the Church indirectly confirmed that they cover something up. But they cover up the impostor's actions because there is nothing to cover up in the life of the real founder Ron.
APP: Some people drew quite a lot of money from the Church…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I believe some people infiltrate the church for no other purpose to sue later and to get rich.
APP: There is a lot of talk of OT III. Independents want to skip the level and the church says it needs to stay word for word as it is now applied in the church. What do you think?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: The real founder wrote OT level but I am sure that they were altered shortly after they left his desk by the psychiatric infiltration and pushed down the church lines in altered form in the handwriting of the impostor or another forger.
APP: Why didn't the founder walk into his organizations and correct what was changed.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure that he did until the point where he could not go in any organization anymore because SEGNPMSS hired snipers with sharp monition to stop him going in and discovering the massive psychiatric takeover.
APP: So, you think Scientology as by the real founder is lost?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not necessarily. If the CIA and other American secret services can be compelled to come forward with all their footage of what the real Ron did, wrote and said, it could be perfectly restored. But I don't see anyone but me who wants that. Seems most others are happy with the impostor version, because they are complete fools.
APP: Didn't Speaker Tommy Davis tell the New Yorker that the technology used in Scientology orgs was checked against "Hubbard's original dictation".
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Recordings can be altered, besides the impostor had a similar voice and they checked against his dictations.
APP: Do you think that a homosexual person or lesbian person is a pervert?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: As I explained already, it is a person who was tricked into taking a body of the gender that he didn't have in his or her former lifetimes and that he wouldn't had chosen on himself. We can either overlook these psychiatric secret service crimes and wait until it is done to anybody and until anybody is gay or lesbian and until there are no straight people anymore, or we rather tell all those people who are attracted to their own sex what happened to them and make sure that they have the right to chose the gender that they really want.
APP: The New Yorker wrote that Tommy Davis acknowledged that some of Hubbard's medical records don't add up to what is being told. How do you explain that?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Duh! Two different men, two different lives. The founder and Jack "Apollo" Vistaril were not the same men.
APP: Fletcher Prouty said that Hubbard had an "intelligence background" and some of his records were sheep-dished…
BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) I am telling you, Jack Vistaril was a SEGNPMSS/CIA double agent and particularly, the records that he isn't the real founder of Scientology were sheep-dished… The CIA has a lot of explaining to do.
APP: What about Paul Haggis’ therapy? He said it was helpful, and he doesn't blame others anymore for his problems.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: You should add that this "therapy" appears to be psychiatric or psychological therapy. It's funny what he said he doesn't blame others anymore because all of what he told to the New Yorker sounds like nothing but blame on Scientology, Scientologists, and L. Ron Hubbard. He said, he finds psychiatric or psychological therapy helpful but despite that Deborah Rennard left the church too, they separated. So, how did this therapy help? It sure didn't help their relationship.
APP: It’s scandalous that Daniel Montalvo didn't knew who Robert Redford is. Do you agree?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: (laughs) There might be many 19-years old who sit glued on the TV who don't know who Robert Redford is because they are mainly interested in their own generation. Jason Beghe says that Daniel never watched TV. Like most of his generation, he seems to be a guy who rather sits behind a computer or watches on his computer. That "innocent" 19-year old knew what computer hard drives and zip drives are, and I believe he was accused of stealing such technical property from the Scientology orgs. I don't buy Jason's Behge's version of "Amish" Scientology. I think that Daniel was rather tech sassy just like most kids of his generation.
APP: Do you think that the church will fairgame Haggis in two years on a scandal that has nothing to do with Scientology?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Real Scientologists never would fairgame anyone and as for the non-Scientologists who hang out in the orgs for short or very long, I am sure that Paul Haggis knows what they are capable of. It takes one to know one. He really is a piece of work. He covered his tracks. He can do now whatever he wants and when the scandal blows open, he thinks he can get away with it by saying: "See, I told Lawrence Wright from the New Yorker in February 2011, I am being fairgamed by Scientologists… I am an innocent bastard…"
APP: What do you say to those people who say that I'm your sock puppet interviewer?
BARBARA SCHWARZ: Are you?
APP: That is getting us nowhere. But thanks for that interview and your unique opinions. It's always a pleasure, Barbara. Take care.
BARBARA SCHWARZ: You too. Bye.
